Brand License???

I’m seeing patterns here that, in my opinion, require a license from the brand manufacturer. I don’t see any mention of a license in the text.
Is it Hello Kitty or Disney?? I wouldn’t be able to sleep soundly anymore.

Hi,
I don’t think anyone here on a marketplace cares about that except the sellers. Do you mean this shop? https://www.crazypatterns.net/de/store/MayBeeProduction Why do you think she doesn’t have a license for it?

Best regards, Karo

No—I think she means more like
Minni Mouse: https://www.crazypatterns.net/de/items/2268/minnie-anleitungen
or
Olaf https://www.crazypatterns.net/de/items/2277/xxl-olaf-schneemann-aus-frozen-eiskoenigin
Best regards,
Petra
 

And I also don’t think buyers or sellers necessarily care. As long as it stays that way, it’s no big deal.
It only gets annoying if Disney or the rights holders start taking an interest. I’m just thinking, for example, of the “Sorgenfresser,” where there was a flood of cease-and-desist letters… even for sellers of patterns on sites like Dawanda…
Personally, I don’t really care what others do. If I see it, I’ll point it out to them. Otherwise, I don’t worry about it any further. I myself, however, would be absolutely terrified of getting into massive trouble—which could cost me a hell of a lot of money if it came down to it...

Licensing law is one thing; stealing is another.
Just pick up some relevant amigurumi or crochet magazines and compare the patterns here.
Then you’ll realize that what you find here is the same as in the magazines (and I don’t think the publishers have stolen all the patterns).
Maybe the “designers” are actually allowed to do this—but if so, they really should make that clear.

Still, I think some lawyers specializing in cease-and-desist letters will eventually take care of that.

I’m assuming anyway that on June 13, there’ll be a flood of cease-and-desist letters on European platforms.
On that day, a few aspects of European e-commerce law will change.
Unfortunately, there hasn’t been any information yet from crazypatterns about how this will work on that platform—and yes, it affects Latvia as well.

It would be great to see some information on this in a new thread.

Mentioning a new thread is moot—I just found the right one. Still, a mass email would have been nice.

Hello Mario,

it's good that you found the right thread. There is plenty of information online about the changes. We don't want to deal with that too much here - that's what the lawyers do.

We are very happy to focus on our own tasks (I'm talking about myself and a few designers) :-).

Best regards
Alexander

The Olaf one is mine, by the way...... I’ve also been wondering for ages how this works with the license, but if you Google how many patterns there are for Olaf or other Disney characters (especially in the U.S.), some of them have been around for years, others for weeks..... and they’re still being sold..........  I find it really difficult, but unfortunately I still haven’t found anything saying whether it’s allowed or not.... theoretically, I’d have to contact Disney directly, and I think I’ll do that sometime soon.... just to be on the safe side.

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What I’ve noticed quite often, though, is paid patterns on Dawanda/Crazypatterns/Ravelry being sold by designers where I’m 10000% sure I’ve already seen those patterns in books and magazines.............. 

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And something else has happened to me too: as I said, I’ve been crocheting for ages, and I’ve also been crocheting socks using my own method for ages. When I became self-employed, I wrote a pattern for it too. About a year after my pattern was published, a book came out where the method of crocheting socks was 98% the same as mine..... the question is: two minds, one idea, or did someone copy me (meaning a publisher)? Or what was going on there........... In any case, I got some really nasty emails ... I even bought the book to check whether it really was that identical, and yes, apart from 2 or 3 things, it really is the same way of crocheting those socks.,.... I then removed the pattern from my listings because I simply didn’t have the nerve to argue over the €1 I was charging for my pattern.......... but then I think to myself, you’re not reinventing crochet........... depending on what you crochet, there will always be similarities (sometimes more, sometimes less) between different patterns......... what I do find bad, though, are the people who act all important and think they have to pester you or write things like: "I’m going to report you to this place or that place," blah blah blah

Just because there are so many patterns out there doesn’t mean it’s allowed. And it definitely isn’t if you haven’t obtained a license from Disney. The fact that so many patterns have been on the market for quite some time just means that Disney hasn’t yet seen the need to issue cease-and-desist letters to small vendors, even though they could. Other companies aren’t so lenient—Jack Wolfskin, for example, has been busy since the end of last year sending cease-and-desist letters to small and very small sellers of handmade items featuring paws (which don’t even necessarily resemble the brand’s logo). And they’re getting away with it. Apple, too, never misses an opportunity to have its lawyers send out cease-and-desist letters. And a cease-and-desist letter like that can really cost you a fortune. Even including pictures in a pattern for a cardigan showing the cardigan with, say, Hello Kitty buttons is prohibited, as it constitutes commercial use of an object requiring a license without having that license.

When it comes to copying, it’s naturally difficult. I also have a cardigan for sale with RVO—it’s done the way it’s done. Reinventing the wheel is difficult. As long as there are no distinctive features involved, neither party will be able to sue the other.

Hi berlidesign,

....but what I find really bad are the people who act all high and mighty and feel the need to harass you or write things like: “I’m going to tattle on you to so-and-so” blah blah blah

I agree with you there, but you also have to understand the growing resentment toward pseudo-designers (please don’t take this personally).
You look at the shop and can tell exactly which patterns are self-made and which aren’t—the quality differences are so stark that you can’t help but notice.
Then, by chance, you flip through a magazine and find those exact same patterns there.
And there are more and more pseudo-designers settling into ready-made nests and wanting to make money. I regularly get requests asking if my patterns can be resold commercially. When I say no, some of them get rude.

But unfortunately, this whole brand licensing issue is not without its problems either. Legal advice might be a good idea here.

Pseudo-designer ... that says it exactly .......... I absolutely don’t get it .......... I mean, I don’t want to sell anything copied ..... my honor just wouldn’t allow that ...... everything I design comes 100% from my own head and was crocheted with my own hands, and every step was written down by me .........

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It may be that Disney simply hasn’t seen any need for it so far...........  in any case, I’m definitely going to ask about these Disney characters this year ..... let’s see what kind of answer I get .......... you don’t become a millionaire with crochet patterns anyway :)

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I have to admit, I think it’s a bit reckless to keep a pattern on sale for months when there are obviously licensing issues. Lawyers don’t care how much—or how little—money is made from it. Jack Wolfskin sends cease-and-desist letters to people on DaWanda who sell individual pillows with paw prints on them (as I said, they look completely different from Wolfskin’s) and certainly aren’t going to become millionaires from them. Personally, I’d be too nervous about a lawyer noticing and demanding a four-figure sum from me—which would be perfectly legal. But well, that’s up to each person to decide; for my part, I’d rather stick to things that are entirely my own original creations.

@Häkelkeks:
You write: “And there are more and more pseudo-designers who want to cash in on others’ work. I regularly get requests asking if my patterns can be resold commercially. When I say no, some of them get abusive.”

You can’t be serious?? So not the figures crocheted from your patterns, but the PATTERN itself? I mean… I’m speechless!! I’ve been through quite a bit myself (insults, threats, etc.), but this takes the cake…
 

After all, 99% of these patterns aren’t allowed to be resold, just like with sewing patterns, etc.

I can only share my experience with the Octonauts:
In Germany, SuperRTL holds the licensing rights to the Octonauts.
When I asked if I could sell figures or a pattern for them, I received the following response:
If you pay a €2,000 licensing fee and an agreed-upon percentage of sales, that would be possible!
Umm... €2,000 plus royalties per sale... that’s not really worth it!

I wanted to crochet a Sheldon Cooper (and create a pattern)... but I was flat-out forbidden from doing so! I can make it myself, but selling it? NO!

As far as I’ve heard, the licensing fee for Disney is in the five-figure range! oO

On this site, you can find all kinds of licensed products and their license holders for Germany!
http://www.lizenzbranche.de/CompanyPage.aspx?IzmLang=7&CMP=255&

There are tons of patterns for Disney and Hello Kitty, etc.... but just because x other people are doing it doesn’t make it any more legal!
Personally, I wouldn’t dare try it!

Yeah, I feel the same way as Michaela—I’d be terrified that some shrewd cease-and-desist lawyer would suddenly show up at my door demanding a hefty sum... It’s a shame, really. Because Disney has sooo many cute things right now...

I got a response from Disney!
I wanted to try making a Frozen doll and just asked them.

In short: Disney does NOT allow it!

“As you probably know, all of our characters are protected by copyright.
To manufacture and sell products yourself, you definitely need a license.
However, the granting of such a license is subject to extensive material and financial
requirements that can only be met by larger companies.

We’re sorry we couldn’t give you better news on this.”

So, as a “mere mortal,” you can’t get a license. :(
 

But it’s still possible that they could be sublicensed? A large company (or whatever) buys a license to grant licenses and then pays part of the revenue to Disney. I don’t want to speculate, but that would be conceivable, right?

That is NOT a claim!!! :)
Best, Karo

Karonana3, you’re right—Disney has definitely sold licenses to quite a few companies.
I think that when a big company like Mattel is allowed to make games, or Simba is allowed to make stuffed animals, you can’t compare that to
a crochet pattern! There are sums of money involved that a small business owner like me can’t even dream of.

If Disney were to take legal action, it would get really expensive! With Jack Wolfskin, it was in the five-figure range… I can’t afford that!

I was thinking more along the lines of a licensing agent. I’m going to bow out here :-) I don’t know much about this, and only those who actually sell these items really understand it. I also think every seller is responsible for their own work. 

What do you all think about it?

Etsy: https://www.etsy.com/de/search?q=Mickey%20crochet&order=most_relevant&ship_to=ZZ

Dawanda: http://de.dawanda.com/search?q=mickey+h%C3%A4keln

Ravelry: http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/search#query=mickey crochet

Best, Karo

In Germany, basically everything is prohibited under our copyright law.
Ravelry and Etsy from the U.S. hold the copyright.
But nobody cares because Disney hasn’t sent any cease-and-desist letters yet! :D

To put it bluntly: If I rob a bank and don’t get caught or punished, does that mean it’s allowed?!

What I’m wondering… is it also illegal to buy these patterns?
Because buying something illegal could have consequences too, right??!
Does anyone know?

“Ignorance of the law is no excuse.”
You’re liable to prosecution simply for possessing a document that infringes on various third-party rights.

It’s just like with unofficial file-sharing networks. You can only be punished if you’re caught in the act of purchasing. The rest is hard to prove.

By the way, I found a file-sharing site for patterns. It’s set up as a forum and is totally illegal under our laws. So far, I haven’t found a way to take action against it.

www.trulydiy.com

This site is sometimes online and sometimes offline, and you’ll find some of your own patterns there. The original patterns are altered so that it’s no longer possible to tell who originally bought them, and then they’re offered for exchange. I tried it with our Clownis and essentially downloaded my own pattern—without the watermark or my name.

And the buyer must have purchased it anonymously through CP, since I had only sold the watering can through CP at that time, and it can be found there as well.

I’d like to bring this thread back up, since it’s very relevant right now.

Unfortunately, there are too many violations in this area at the moment. It’s especially important for newcomers. And since I believe CP will soon be acting as a seller, this likely won’t leave CP unaffected either!

Best regards, Kathrin 

@Häkelkeks:
But it can actually work exactly the other way around, too. Suddenly there are customers who have been buying patterns for years and are featured in crochet magazines, and the similarity to your own patterns is sometimes striking ;-)